CE Phoenix Cart Forum

@burt Gary, I agree completely with what you, and @Philo2005, have said.
--- AND ---
(if I may pose a question ...)

As a store owner, trying to actually generate an income off of your shop, once a shop is established and running smoothly, besides the day-to-day processing of orders, and any necessary maintenance to products or customers, how often do you update your store's website?

Is your 'job' to generate income, or is it to manage/maintain/update and/or constantly revise the web site?

I see six (6) reasons to update my store:

1) Something is broken. Bug fixes.
2) Having to update a payment method (ie: Paypal has had a change)
3) Having to update a shipping method (ie: USPS has had a change)
4) Your web host has changed something (ie: they updated the version of PHP)(my biggest reason)
5) You feel your site is getting a bit old and stale, and want to give it a new Look and Feel.
6) You want to add a new feature.

One of Phoenix's selling points is that you can customize your shop without modifying any core code. Then, when an update is available, it won't overwrite your customization.

But, if my store is running fine as it is, and none of the above 6 items apply, why would I need to, or want to, do an update?

As a store owner, what reason do I have to upgrade to the latest n.n.n.X upgrade? Or even a n.n.X.n upgrade?

Or, are we like Microsoft (or Apple, or Android, or ...), insisting that we apply every new upgrade as they come out?

Personally, as an end user, if there is a website or application I use often, I do NOT like it when they update it, especially when there are any changes in the user interface! As often as not, the 'update' makes things more difficult, not easier! For example, my bank recently 'updated' their web site, and I hate it! It is much more difficult to navigate than before!

(I now return you to your regularly scheduled program)

I forgot security patches! We can call ANYTHING a "security patch", and justify it's importance.

ArtcoInc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 04, 2026 2:05 pm (if I may pose a question ...)

Interesting viewpoint.

I will read properly and respond later

Malcolm, fair question, well asked.

For most store owners, the goal is simple: generate income and keep the shop running smoothly. Once a store is stable and doing what you need it to do, there is no reason to change it just for the sake of change.

Phoenix is not designed to force constant upgrades. We have shopowners on v1030 (and earlier, I helped someone on a pre-phoenix the other day) all the way to v1106 (and even edge case of someone on v1107)! Phoenix won't tell you what you must do, your host might.

If your shop is running well, your payment and shipping modules are working, your host environment is stable, and there are no security concerns, then there is no obligation to update just because a new version number exists.

Updates generally exist for specific reasons:

• Security improvements
• Compatibility with newer PHP versions
• Changes in payment or shipping APIs
• Bug fixes
• Optional new features

If none of those apply to your situation, there is no pressure to upgrade.

This is not about creating a "churn cycle" like large commercial platforms. Stability is a strength of Phoenix, not something to undermine.

The broader discussion about support is not about pushing constant development or redesigns. It is about ensuring that when security updates, compatibility fixes, or critical maintenance are needed, there are people able to do that work.

Sustainability does not mean instability. It means making sure the platform remains secure, compatible, and available when you need it.

If your store is running happily, that’s a success - not a problem to fix.

ArtcoInc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 04, 2026 2:05 pm ...

As with Steves post, there is a lot to unpack - so I'd like to (if it's OK) split it out in the coming days and reply bit by bit in a bit more depth.

@burt

As with Steves post, there is a lot to unpack - so I'd like to (if it's OK) split it out in the coming days and reply bit by bit in a bit more depth.

Of course.

I know that there is something that you and I have discussed before, but may be relevant here ...

For most shop owners, Phoenix is just a tool.

Gary, you have your own store, and Phoenix is your PRODUCT.

Your goal is to make the best product possible: Phoenix, the tool.

And, like all store owners, you also need to make enough of an income in order to continue developing,, supplying, and supporting, your product.

Which leads me to the topic you and I discussed before ...

If Phoenix is your product, who is your target customer (you call them users)?

Is your target customer a beginner that installs Phoenix with a one-click install on their host? Is Phoenix something you could market to your Mother, if she were to want to have a web shop, selling her home-made crafts?

Or, is your target customer "developers"?

Or, is your target customer someone else?

I believe that you need to identify who your target customer is, so you can come up with a plan to:

1) Design Phoenix FOR that customer, AND

2) Come up with a marketing plan to attract THEM as customers.


Malcolm

(by the way, I am NOT your target customer <g>)

You’re right - for most shopowners, Phoenix is a tool. It exists to help them run their business. Once it’s working, their focus should absolutely be on generating income, not constantly maintaining software.

For me (and for the small number of people contributing to it), Phoenix is both a tool *and* a product in the sense that it requires ongoing development, testing, compatibility work, and support. That does create a natural tension - and it’s important to acknowledge it openly.

So who is Phoenix for?

Phoenix is for merchants who want:

• Full control of their store
• No license fees
• The ability to customize without core hacks
• Long-term stability
• Independence from SaaS platforms

It is not aimed at those who want a "click and forget" hosted solution with no involvement.
And it is nowhere near a developer framework either.

The typical Phoenix merchant sits somewhere in the middle:

• Running a real business
• Comfortable managing hosting and updates
• Wanting ownership and flexibility
• Not wanting to be locked into a monthly platform fee

That clarity matters.

Phoenix is not trying to compete with Shopify on simplicity. It is not trying to compete with Laravel on developer abstraction.

It sits in a specific space: independent merchants who value control over convenience.

And you’re right about something else: identifying the target helps shape both development and sustainability.

But here’s the key point: Phoenix does not require every merchant to become a developer, and it does not require constant upgrades.

If a store is stable and secure, and the merchant is happy, that’s success.

What Phoenix does require - in order to continue existing - is that enough of those merchants recognize that independence and stability do not maintain themselves.

Some will support financially.
Some will contribute through participation.
Some will test, answer questions, or improve documentation.

The model works if enough people engage in one of those ways.

So the target customer?

An independent merchant who values ownership, stability, and long-term control - and understands that open source survives through shared responsibility.

That’s the correct lane to drive, I think. And defining it clearly is part of building something sustainable.

by the way, I am NOT your target customer <g>

Going by this repeated from above;

So the target customer?

An independent merchant who values ownership, stability, and long-term control - and understands that open source survives through shared responsibility.

Perhaps that is you ?